7 June May 2001
Source: Digital file from the Court Reporters Office, Southern District of
New York; (212) 805-0300.
This is the transcript of Day 61 of the trial, June 7, 2001.
See other transcripts: http://cryptome.org/usa-v-ubl-dt.htm
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1 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
2 ------------------------------x
3 UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
4 v. S(7) 98 Cr. 1023
5 USAMA BIN LADEN, et al.,
6 Defendants.
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8
New York, N.Y.
9 June 7, 2001
11:35 a.m.
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12 Before:
13 HON. LEONARD B. SAND,
14 District Judge
15 APPEARANCES
16 MARY JO WHITE
United States Attorney for the
17 Southern District of New York
BY: PATRICK FITZGERALD
18 MICHAEL GARCIA
Assistant United States Attorneys
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FREDRICK H. COHN
21 DAVID P. BAUGH
Attorneys for defendant Mohamed Rashed Daoud Al-'Owhali
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1 (In open court)
2 THE COURT: Good morning. I take it you have all
3 seen the note from the jury.
4 (Jury note marked as Court Exhibit I of today's date)
5 MR. COHN: We have, your Honor.
6 THE COURT: Does somebody propose a reply?
7 MR. FITZGERALD: Yes, your Honor. I think we had
8 language both parties agreed upon to suggest to your Honor.
9 THE COURT: All right. May I hear it, please?
10 MR. FITZGERALD: With regard to the first question,
11 the regulations regarding the special administrative measures
12 were offered as a defense exhibit concerning the issue of
13 future dangerousness.
14 Their question had been, "Does future dangerousness
15 relate to the measures?" and I think the inverse is true, the
16 measures relate to the dangerousness.
17 THE COURT: Then it says, "Are they applied
18 automatically?"
19 MR. FITZGERALD: The next part of the answer would
20 be, in the event of a life sentence, special administrative
21 measures are not automatically applied. See the regulations.
22 And then the third part, "Is it intended as an
23 argument for the death penalty?," because "it" is unclear, the
24 proposed answer would say: The non-statutory aggravating
25 factor of future dangerousness is offered by the government as
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1 a factor in favor of imposing the death penalty. And then it
2 continue: The regulations concerning the special
3 administrative measures were offered by the defense to rebut
4 that aggravating factor.
5 THE COURT: All right. I have no problem with the
6 substance of that. I would like to try some other language.
7 Give me a moment.
8 (Pause)
9 THE COURT: I thought the answer called for a little
10 more of a background, and what I have written so far is: The
11 first non-statutory aggravating factor as to future
12 dangerousness relates to whether Al-'Owhali will be a threat
13 even though he will be sentenced to life imprisonment.
14 Al-'Owhali contends that he will be subject to rigorous
15 security measures (the special administrative measures) and
16 will not be a future threat. The government contends that,
17 despite these measures, Al-'Owhali will still be dangerous.
18 The special administrative measures are not applied
19 automatically, but in accordance with their provisions.
20 Whether or not Al-'Owhali will pose a continuing and serious
21 threat while incarcerated is the issue for you to determine.
22 MR. COHN: Your Honor, on some reflection, it seems
23 to me that what is missing from that and what was offered
24 before is that the preamble should say, "The government seeks
25 to prove that he is a future danger." The way we are
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1 answering the question seems to presume that it has been
2 proven.
3 THE COURT: I have no problem with that.
4 MR. FITZGERALD: Your Honor, I think it would be more
5 appropriate to say "the government contends it proved."
6 THE COURT: The government contends.
7 MR. COHN: Well, then it should be reflected with our
8 contention that it was rebutted.
9 THE COURT: I wonder whether, you know, the suggested
10 language was that the defendant has introduced the SAM and
11 whether that's --
12 MR. COHN: I'm justing looking, the government's
13 contention, if you are putting contentions --
14 THE COURT: As to the second non-statutory --
15 MR. FITZGERALD: First.
16 THE COURT: As to the -- yes, as to the first
17 non-statutory aggravating factor, the government contends that
18 Al-'Owhali poses a continuing and serious threat even though
19 he will be imprisoned for life. Al-'Owhali contends that he
20 will be subject to rigorous security (the special
21 administrative measures), and will, therefore, not constitute
22 a threat. The government contends that, despite these
23 measures, the threat will be present. It is for you to decide
24 whether the defendant would or would not pose a continuing and
25 serious threat.
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1 The special administrative measures are not
2 automatically applied, but are applied in accordance with
3 their provisions.
4 Is there an exhibit number? Should I have that?
5 MR. COHN: It's Defense Al-'Owhali --
6 THE COURT: Is that an exhibit they have asked for?
7 MR. FITZGERALD: No, Judge.
8 MR. BAUGH: They have not asked for the exhibit.
9 MR. COHN: They haven't asked for that exhibit.
10 THE COURT: Let me read this again: As to the first
11 non-statutory aggravating factor, the government contends that
12 Al-'Owhali poses a continuing and serious threat even though
13 he will be imprisoned for life. Al-'Owhali contends that he
14 will be subject to rigorous security (the special
15 administrative measures), and will, therefore, not constitute
16 a threat. The government contends that, despite these
17 measures, the threat will be present. It is for you to decide
18 whether the defendant would or would not pose a continuing and
19 serious threat.
20 The special administrative measures are not
21 automatically applied, but are applied in accordance with
22 their provisions.
23 MR. COHN: If your Honor please, which have been
24 submitted as Al-'Owhali Exhibit R.
25 THE COURT: Al-'Owhali Exhibit R.
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1 MR. FITZGERALD: Your Honor, I believe it is R. If
2 we're going to reference the Al-'Owhali exhibit, which is a
3 regulation, I think we should also reference the stipulation
4 concerning the government's response to that regulation, which
5 is 2281.
6 THE COURT: Why don't I say Al-'Owhali Exhibit R and
7 stipulation --
8 What's the number?
9 MR. FITZGERALD: 2281.
10 THE COURT: -- 2281 deal with these issues.
11 Let me read it again: As to the first non-statutory
12 aggravating factor, the government contends that Al-'Owhali
13 poses a continuing and serious threat even though he will be
14 imprisoned for life. Al-'Owhali denies that he constitutes
15 such a threat and contends that he will be subject to rigorous
16 security (the special administrative measures), and will,
17 therefore, not constitute a threat.
18 No, that's redundant.
19 The government contends that, despite these measures,
20 the threat will be present. It is for you to decide whether
21 defendant Al-'Owhali would or would not pose a continuing and
22 serious threat.
23 The special administrative measures are not
24 automatically applied, but are applied in accordance with
25 their provisions. Al-'Owhali Exhibit R and Stipulation 2281
7292
1 deal with these issues.
2 Is that acceptable?
3 MR. COHN: Yes.
4 MR. FITZGERALD: Yes.
5 THE COURT: All right. I will put that in legible
6 form and we'll send it in to the jury.
7 This has let us know exactly where they are in the
8 Special Verdict Form.
9 All right. Maybe I could even get a scribe with
10 clearer handwriting. We'll await further word from the jury.
11 MR. BAUGH: Are you going to bring them out and read
12 it to them, or are you going to send it back, or both?
13 THE COURT: I'm going to send it back.
14 MR. BAUGH: Okay.
15 THE COURT: Is that acceptable? It takes ten minutes
16 for them to come in and ten minutes for them to go back.
17 (Recess pending verdict; time noted: 12:00 p.m.)
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